Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Baby (Rajen Prasad) FAIL # 1

Yes Vote Fail is proud to present a series of 2 Mp's who quite literally are babies.

First up is Labour MP Rajen Prasad



This man, who is one of our MP's is going to spoil his referendum voting paper.

It was reported that he doesn't know which way he would vote so he will just spoil his paper.

BABY FAIL !


John Roughan - FAIL (officially!)

This morning Jim Evans, emeritus professor of law at Auckland University has a column in the Herald, which demolishes John Roughan's nonsense of the other day.

Have a read here.

Tuesday, August 4, 2009

We're right, you are wrong - Judith Collins FAIL

Judith Collins has no regard for the will of the people and the referendum.




She told the NZ Herald on saturday saying the 'anti-smacking' law was being applied correctly.

She went on to say about the law,

"I think it doesn't need to change, so I don't think the question is fair enough."

Well excuse me Judith, but I don't care what you think. The people of NZ might not agree with you and you should be listening to them.

The question may not be fair in your eyes, but that doesn't matter, the people of NZ forced the question. It is our question, not yours.

Its just like saying elections aren't fair because we don't think there should be a change of governmnet.

FAIL.

Nikki Kaye - FAIL

National MP Nikki Kaye told NZ that she likes the government interferring in peoples lives.



She said about the referendum.

"My worry is that many people I talk to see a 'yes' vote as a vote to reduce family violence and a 'no' vote as a vote to stop the Government interfering and telling them how to bring up their kids. I believe in reducing family violence and Government interference in people's lives."

Thanks Nikki, looks like nanny state is to continue...

FAIL

Judy Bailey FAIL

I read a small article in The Press a few weeks ago entitled "Anti-smackers retain Bailey".

"Mother of the Nation", Judy Bailey's comments are absolutely vile. Her comments in the article are copied below...

"This whole debate was never about light smacking or good parental correction; it was all about the parents who choose to beat their children with jug cords or bits of four-by-two... [The law change] sent a powerful message to us all that hitting children is not good parenting. Children who were hit by their parents often grew up seeing violence as the answer to problems, and whole communities believed "it is normal to hang a child from a washing line". Good parenst have absolutely nothing to fear from this legislation"


Stating that the entire community in which poor Nia Glassie lived was essentially complicit in her brutal torture and murder is just not acceptable.

Bailey's other incorrect comments pale into insignificance compared with this awful, thoughtless and offensive statement.

Monday, August 3, 2009

No one... except those famous people over the road

I typed "Otago" into the "Yes Vote" site, and among the articles found there was this line.
Research shows that physical punishment has been associated with children’s increased aggression; poorer academic achievement; poorer quality parent-child relationships; more depression and anxiety; and decreased self control. No-one has been able to show that physical punishment has any long-term positive effects on children’s behaviour or development. Other more positive methods of parental discipline have been shown to be more effective, contribute to the well being of children and do not pose risks.
Except that is not true.

Groundbreaking New Zealand research has refuted thousands of international studies which claim that smacking children makes them more likely to become aggressive and antisocial.

Children who are smacked lightly with an open hand on the bottom, hand or leg do much the same in later life as those who are not smacked, found the Dunedin multidisciplinary health and development study, which has tracked 1000 children since they were born in the city in 1972-73.

The finding, based on interviews in the past two years when the children were 32-year-olds, will be published this year.

...

Preliminary analysis showed that those who were merely smacked had "similar or even slightly better outcomes" than those who were not smacked in terms of aggression, substance abuse, adult convictions and school achievement.

"Study members in the 'smacking only' category of punishment appeared to be particularly high-functioning and achieving members of society," she said.

So what of those other studies?

But the lead author of the physical punishment part of the Dunedin study, psychologist Jane Millichamp, said the project appeared to be the first long-term study in the world to separate out those who had merely been smacked with an open hand.

"I have looked at just about every study I can lay my hands on, and there are thousands, and I have not found any evidence that an occasional mild smack with an open hand on the clothed behind or the leg or hand is harmful or instils violence in kids," she said.

...

Dr Millichamp said the Dunedin study so far found no evidence of the "slippery slope" theory - that parents who started off smacking often progressed to abusive punishments.

So there you have it. Not only is there a study that shows that physical discipline produces the best outcomes for children, but the researchers also reviewed other studies and discovered that they had all conflated smacking and abuse.

In other words, every study that came to the conclusions Dr Smith quotes had used fauty methodology that assumed smacking was abuse.

Now, outside of missing thousands of studies with flawed methodology, it would be easy for Dr Smith to miss the one un-flawed study. There's just one problem with that.

Anne Smith works for Otago University. The study that refuses her is the Dunedin multidisciplinary health and development study, which is based at the same university. Not only that, but the DMHDS is famous - it was and continues to be well regarded and groundbreaking in the field of human development.

I don't know where exactly where Smith or Millichamp are based, but last I checked the Otago Education and Psychology departments are less than 5 mins walk from each other.

Which makes you wonder how she missed it.

Honestly reporting the research - FAIL!

Sunday, August 2, 2009

Yes Vote Drives Trucks Through it's own Credibility

In the weekend, John Roughan's regular column descended into farce. MacDoctor outlined the biggest problem.

Roughan’s theory is that what the law-makers really meant by “correction” is the thorough tonking you were given “when daddy comes home”, where children were beaten until they screamed. A so-called “good” hiding. He thinks that the referendum question is designed to legitimize this sort of behaviour, that is is a sort of stealth question that will allow hundreds of Christian fundamentalists the right to beat their children to a pulp.

There is really only one thing wrong with his viewpoint. It is utter nonsense.

Not only is it nonsense, but flies in the face of:
  • Child discipline Case law
  • Most statements on smacking by Sue Bradford
  • All statements by Bob McCoskrie
  • Amendments voted down by the Sue Bradford/Helen Clark bloc
  • Actions of the police since the law change
  • And numerous entries in the Yes Vote site itself
In other words, it's a complete fantasy at odds with all known facts in the debate - including most things the Yes Vote site has been saying.

From the Yes Vote page "How the referendum came about"
And further from the "history of the child discipline law"

In 2007 a heavily amended version of Sue Bradford’s bill became law in New Zealand. It was supported by 113 of 120 members of Parliament. New Zealand became the first English speaking country to introduce legal measures to ban physical punishment of children.

So the "Yes Vote" site is quite clear - all physical discipline is bad, illegal, and not part of good parental correction.

So the question in my mind is this: would the "Yes Vote" site link to a story which states that discipline (outside a "good thrashing") is not illegal, then attacks their opponent? To me, that's not a hard call - If I were the "Yes Vote" site, I'd avoid this one at all costs.

On the other hand though, they've posted some dubious material at times. So did they avoid it?

They didn't.
There was a nice piece in yesterday’s Herald by John Roughan: Sinister undertones to referendum instigators, in which John rightly brings into question what Bob McCoskrie and friends mean by “correction”. He concludes that what the instigators of this referendum are really after is the restoration of their right to give their kids a good hiding.
So there you have it. The "Yes Vote" site just endorsed a column which utterly contradicts and undermines their own view of the new law.

And how do they describe this person who contradicts them? "nice"

It seems to me that the credibility of the entire "Yes Vote" campaign (which, as evidenced by this site, was never very high) is now a big, fat zero. They've thrown out all semblance of principles, simply so they can endorse someone demonizing their most prominent opponent.

I'm frankly amazed someone didn't realise and take it down sooner. I noticed it this morning, and it's still there as of 5:30. Does no one in the campaign read the site?

Being serious about maintaining your credibility - FAIL

P.S. It's almost enough to wonder if they'd post Bob's material, if he abused himself at the end of his columns! Well, why wouldn't they?